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Subject: Re: Songs spam management
From: Fredrik Söderblom <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Network management discussion for Nordic region <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:39:03 +0100

text/plain (58 lines)


Frey is a friend of mine, and he's the head of the abuse and security dept. at Song,
i forwarded some of the recent mails regarding Song to him for some feedback.

here's Frey's reply:

From: "Frey Sigurjonsson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: Fredrik Söderblom <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:07:20 +0100

Tack, diskussionen börjar smått förvirrat men ordnar till sig på slutet. Självfallet filtrerar Song *inte* trafik. Däremot tillåter Song endast att våra tjänster nyttjas på ett tillbördigt sätt.

De har fel i sak när de säger att SPAM's inom egna nätet inte är ett problem, det är ett problem.
Många av våra kunder har implementerat SMTP servrer med default (i.e. sendmails DS=) relay till songs system. När kundens SMTP server inte har relay skydd blir de utnyttjade av spammers. Det resulterar i att kundens mailsystem och ibland även Songs mailsystem blir svartlistade. Songs i och med att vi uppenbarligen varit delaktiga i SPAM utskick (för en domän vi inte hanterar). Svartlistningen i sin tur resulterar i problem för samtliga användare.

I våra avtal står klart och tydligt vad som ingår. Å enda sidan kan man tycka att det är rätt att alla bilar levereras med skinnklädsel, å andra sidan vill man kanske inte betala extra om man inte har behovet. Vi har helt enkelt plockat ut tjänsten och erbjuder den som ett tillval.

Du kan gärna vidarbefodra detta.


somewhat freely translated:

Thanks, the discussion is a tad off, but get's on track at the end. Song DOESN'T filter traffic,
but Song won't allow that their services are used in a not approved fashion.

They're wrong when they say that SPAM within the own network is not a problem, it is.
A lot of our customers has implemented SMTP servers with default (ie: sendmail's DS=) relay
to Song's systems. When the customers SMTP servers doesn't have adequate relay protection they get
abused by spammers. That results in the customers system, and in some cases even songs systems, get's
blacklisted. Song, since we obviously have been part of the SPAM (for a domain we don't handle).
The blacklisting itself results in problems for all users.

In our agreements it's clearly stated what's included. One might think that all car's should have
leather seats, but on the other hand you don't wanna pay for it, unless you need it.
We have simply removed the service and offers it as an option.

Feel free to forward this.



On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:34:42 +0100
John Angelmo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> As a costumer of Song Networks I noticed last friday that SMTP wasn't
> working any more, after a breif conversation with support I was informed
> that Song now forces the uses to "POP before SMTP", now the company I
> work for has a SDSL subscription from Song but uses POP/IMAP from other
> places (they don't provide SMTP), the "POP before SMTP" policy was added
>   since some users abuse Songs SMTP servers.
> What I fear now is that this might lead to another problem, users add
> their own SMTP boxes, but I fear that this might lead to other
> spam-related problems, what do the NordNog members thing?
> /John

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