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Subject: Re: IP limits from RIPE?
From: Carl Moberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Network management discussion for Nordic region <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:06:34 +0100
Content-Type:text/plain
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John Angelmo wrote:

> Bengt Gördén wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:40:53PM +0100, Carl Moberg wrote:
>>
>> >I think (ok, know) that it's more a question of keeping the number
>> >of available end-user products to a working minimum, and more
>> important,
>> >to make them  easy to understand. A parallell would be the old system
>> >design saying "optimize for the common case". All ISPs would rush
>> >multi-IP leases to ADSL users iff the common case was end-users
>> >with servers at home.
>> >
>> >So, for ISP:s, the most customer satisfaction with the smallest working
>> >number of products, more income.
>>
>>
>> Yes. And that boiles down to one ip-number per computer.
>>
>> Ok. I can agree on the definition of the lesser amount of product more
>> income. But I still think that ISP:s should have been lifted in their
>> ear for inventing this "no server on the net"-thing. The problem is
>> that the normal customer doesn't understand the fundamentals behind
>> computing and communication. ISP:s take advantage of that. So
>> customers go for their crappy products. To cite Peter Lothberg about
>> ISP:s (in this case Telia) "they do not contribute to Internet". ISP:s
>> selling services like this do not contribute to internet. Without
>> having investigated this i believe that, the more servers, the more
>> customers.
>>
>
> I must say that Peter Lothberg is right in that case
>
> And the VLAS buy SF that telia uses is (according to me) a stupid
> product, How can my IP phone login to their nonstandard system?
>
> It should simply be: Plug, DHCP and Play ;)

 And where is the ROI for Telia? How would you go about to try
 and make money out of flat-rate ADSL connections? Don't forget
 that practically all ISPs in sweden are dumping their connections
 (selling the product with loss).

> If Telia would have launched their ADSL service with a simpler system we
> wouldn't have the problem with NAT that exists today, since Telia has
> 80% of the ADSL market

 I think (ok, know) that NAT is optional in the current system and the
 reason that many ISPs use NATs are that they are easy to roll
 out (no IP configuration on the customer facing interfaces),
 and that RIPE don't like public IP-addresses unless they're
 explicitliy needed. Not saying that I like this.

>
> /John

-- calle

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