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Subject: Re: IP limits from RIPE?
From: Carl Moberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Network management discussion for Nordic region <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:26:33 +0100

text/plain (67 lines)

John Angelmo wrote:

> Carl Moberg wrote:
>> And where is the ROI for Telia? How would you go about to try
>> and make money out of flat-rate ADSL connections? Don't forget
>> that practically all ISPs in sweden are dumping their connections
>> (selling the product with loss).
> ROI isn't added with the VLAS ;)

 It is actually.

> Telia has a flatrate system today.

 There are other sources of income than the end-users monthly pay.

> Having a system based on recieved Mbytes dosn't work since no one want's
> to pay for possible DoS/DDoS attacks.

 This is one of the problems with billing based on network resources
 used, yes.

> ROI is added whey you have a simple system for the end user, then you
> would have less support calls, IP-phones, Internetaware TVboxes and
> other stuff could be easily added without the need to modify them for
> the VLAS login system

 No, this is how you *remove* all possibilities of ROI. Which company
 do you think have made the most revenue out of the Internet; Telia
 or Yahoo!. Which company do you think have invested more?

> One other funny thing is that you could send a HTML mail with a frame
> that inclues the logoutscript in telia and suddenly the
> telia ComHem/ADSL/HomeRun user reading that mail would be logged out.
> I tesed it a year ago and it worked, perhaps it's fixed now.

 Is that a problem related to HTML-mail clients or Telia?

>> > If Telia would have launched their ADSL service with a simpler
>> system we
>> > wouldn't have the problem with NAT that exists today, since Telia has
>> > 80% of the ADSL market
>> I think (ok, know) that NAT is optional in the current system and the
>> reason that many ISPs use NATs are that they are easy to roll
>> out (no IP configuration on the customer facing interfaces),
>> and that RIPE don't like public IP-addresses unless they're
>> explicitliy needed. Not saying that I like this.
> NAT is something that the user adds since more and more ppl have more
> then one computer in their homes, NAT causes trouble with services and
> perhaps future ISP related services.

 I didn't quite follow the first point but I definitely agree
 with you on the second.

> /John

-- calle

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