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Subject: Re: grads. jobs & fisheries
From: "Matthew S. Grober" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Academic forum on fisheries ecology and related topics <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:07:01 -0700

text/plain (58 lines)

Grossman asked for input, so I will provide some:

> You will note that I did *not* say that 2-4 publications would get you
>either a job or a post-doc, I was merely responding to Aldo's comment
>that the standards for PhD's had changed dramatically, and that now
>4-7 papers were the standard.  In fact, I didn't even dispute Aldo's
>claim for Sweeden, he knows more about the standards there than I do.
>But for U.S. phd, i can only say that 4-7 pubs. doesn't fit what i've
>seen or the dissertations of the seven phd students that i've
>supervised or the two that are currently in my lab.  Can't any other
>faculty or recent phd's comment on this?

In my association with UCLA, Cornell, the University of Hawaii, the
University of Idaho, and Arizona State U., I would say that I've never seen
a PhD granted for a thesis that did not result in AT LEAST 3 major
publications.  In fact, the policy at the UC is that three accepted papers
can be 'stapled togther' and constitute a 'legal' dissertation.  More
generally, I would say that the vast majority of dissertations result in
3-5 papers.

>Finally, lets take a minute to do the math for Ron's assertions,
>because I don't think that we're all that far apart.  If a student
>has done a good masters (and frankly if you want an academic or
>research position, there's no point in not doing a masters)

I disagree with the last statement.  If you want an academic position, you
are much better off going straight from your Bachelors into a PhD program.
Most 'major' PhD granting institutions treat master's students like second
class citizens or use the degree to terminate PhD students who don't 'work
out'.  The only situation where I think the MS is critical, is for a
student who (by virtue of a spotty academic record) can't gain access to a
top lab/program.  In this case I would recommend going to a non-PhD
granting school (e.g., any school in the Cal. State school - not to be
confused with the UC system) to get a masters that will be a stepping stone
to a top program.

So, there's my two cents.

M. Grober

Matthew S. Grober
Assistant Professor of Physiology
Department of Life Sciences
Arizona State University West                Phone: (602) 543-6939
4701 W. Thunderbird Rd.                        FAX: (602) 543-6073
Phoenix, AZ  85069-7100                     E-mail:[log in to unmask]

"No human being was ever so free as a fish."
                            John Ruskin

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