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Subject: Re: grads. jobs & fisheries
From: Aldo-Pier Solari <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Academic forum on fisheries ecology and related topics <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:19:25 GMT

text/plain (57 lines)

Thank you for your guidelines.   I'm  sure  they'll be of help to
many junior scientists.  However,  it  seems  either  I  did  not
express  myself  correctly  or  you've  misunderstood my original

(1).   I  was  not  referring  to  Spain  but to an international
problem which concerns fish  research  both in developing as well
as developed countries.  For instance, in Sweden (as  an  example
of a highly developed society) 50/4500 would be accepted to study
biology anyone year at the university where I am from and 1/10000
would  become  phd's.   The  requirement  standards  are high but
there's still a serious problem

Moreover, you wrote: From: grossman <[log in to unmask]>

]to  investigate  the  job  situation  prior  to  making decisions
]regarding their choice of  educational  programs.  It's a two way
]street and I  have  little  sympathy  for  the  small  but  vocal
]minority  of  students (this same topic/complaint also was raised
]on the ecolog list within  the  last  2 months) who seem to think
]that all responsibilities for their careers rest on the shoulders
]of their graduate program or major professor.

(2) Prof.  Grossman: No one,  in  this  forum, has referred to as
''all responsibilities for their careers rest on the shoulders of
their major professor''.  I, for one, put a  question  concerning
_what_  the  senior  scientists  are doing as _their part_ (their
share, if their is any)  of  this  'fight' (the 'fight' to enable
junior scientists to develop their ideas).  In this, I **assume**
that senior scientists are/may be _interested_ in contributing to
solve these problems.  A junior  'academic-watch'  was  proposed.
To  be  illustrative,  I  have  known  of  hundreds of (fish) phd
students, worldwide, who've been 'sent  to war with an umbrella':
This implies that, often, junior scientists  have  to  carry  out
research  without being given the _basic_ infrastructure to do so
(be this software, hardware,  data, funds, machines, etc.).  Many
times, everything has to be gathered by the junior him/herself:

Moreover, Senior scientist  S.  Gutreuter  and  you,  wrote,  the
situation, now, 'is not much different from 15 years ago'.  Well,
I  have  to,  strongly,  disagree:  For  15-30  years ago, junior
scientists, to obtain  a  phd,  _were  not_  required to have 4-7
international  publications.   The  (academic  and  job   market)
standards  are  much higher now than for 20 years ago and juniors
are required to know  maths, stats, programming, several computer
operative  systems,  use  of   several   mathematical+statistical
software,  be bi/tri-lingual, divers and a series of, many times,
amazing requirements.  Having  seen  phd  thesis from 15-30 years
ago, it appears that _very  few_  junior  fish-scientists,  then,
fullfilled such requirements.

All  in all, it is my perception that if junior scientists do not
get back-up from their seniors, fewer  and fewer will make it and
we'll  be,  sooner  or  later,  cycling  around  the   same   old

    Aldo-Pier Solari

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