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Subject:

Re: grads. jobs & fisheries

From:

Aldo-Pier Solari <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Academic forum on fisheries ecology and related topics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:19:25 GMT

Content-Type:

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Thank you for your guidelines. I'm sure they'll be of help to
many junior scientists. However, it seems either I did not
express myself correctly or you've misunderstood my original
poster:

(1). I was not referring to Spain but to an international
problem which concerns fish research both in developing as well
as developed countries. For instance, in Sweden (as an example
of a highly developed society) 50/4500 would be accepted to study
biology anyone year at the university where I am from and 1/10000
would become phd's. The requirement standards are high but
there's still a serious problem

Moreover, you wrote: From: grossman <[log in to unmask]>

]to investigate the job situation prior to making decisions
]regarding their choice of educational programs. It's a two way
]street and I have little sympathy for the small but vocal
]minority of students (this same topic/complaint also was raised
]on the ecolog list within the last 2 months) who seem to think
]that all responsibilities for their careers rest on the shoulders
]of their graduate program or major professor.

(2) Prof. Grossman: No one, in this forum, has referred to as
''all responsibilities for their careers rest on the shoulders of
their major professor''. I, for one, put a question concerning
_what_ the senior scientists are doing as _their part_ (their
share, if their is any) of this 'fight' (the 'fight' to enable
junior scientists to develop their ideas). In this, I **assume**
that senior scientists are/may be _interested_ in contributing to
solve these problems. A junior 'academic-watch' was proposed.
To be illustrative, I have known of hundreds of (fish) phd
students, worldwide, who've been 'sent to war with an umbrella':
This implies that, often, junior scientists have to carry out
research without being given the _basic_ infrastructure to do so
(be this software, hardware, data, funds, machines, etc.). Many
times, everything has to be gathered by the junior him/herself:

Moreover, Senior scientist S. Gutreuter and you, wrote, the
situation, now, 'is not much different from 15 years ago'. Well,
I have to, strongly, disagree: For 15-30 years ago, junior
scientists, to obtain a phd, _were not_ required to have 4-7
international publications. The (academic and job market)
standards are much higher now than for 20 years ago and juniors
are required to know maths, stats, programming, several computer
operative systems, use of several mathematical+statistical
software, be bi/tri-lingual, divers and a series of, many times,
amazing requirements. Having seen phd thesis from 15-30 years
ago, it appears that _very few_ junior fish-scientists, then,
fullfilled such requirements.

All in all, it is my perception that if junior scientists do not
get back-up from their seniors, fewer and fewer will make it and
we'll be, sooner or later, cycling around the same old
approaches.

    Aldo-Pier Solari


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